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Well, hmmm. Another review that is less than stellar from a fan that points to an interesting observation and honest dilemma. I, for one, appreciate and value your observations, lack of emotion in your response, and obvious long-time connection to Lucinda Williams’ music. I am continuing to give up my seat for those who are interested in these set-lists, her most-recent sound, and the direction of her new album. I, too, am afraid of the responses that might be aimed your way… Thanks, for posting and adding balance to this board! ~David~
Regardless of one’s perspective, this thread has been viewed over 2040 times. This would suggest that overzealous viewpoints are indeed controversial and not universally accepted. With this in mind, here are a few comments from a review of db’s performance from a few nights ago, which seem to echo some of what is/has been uttered in this thread:
…One of the big surprises of the night was in Byrne’s resistance to put on a show that either summarized his career or celebrated old glories. It’s a tough feat considering the tour is meant, on the face of things, to do just that. But with the longer pieces mentioned above, he proved once again that music he recorded thirty years ago is still cutting-edge, still challenging, and still euphoric…
…A change went on during the show that is at the heart of what makes music so utterly necessary to human existence. Together we all stepped out of our lives and took a moment to re-evaluate what was important. In music — as cheesy as it sounds — we really can be children again. And from that vantage point, our adult lives are supremely laughable. Walking out of the show, everyone wore the same elated smile. People mumbled their amazement. It was clear we’d all had the same befuddling, empowering experience, and I doubt anyone left the same person they’d been only a couple hours before. I’ve seen a lot of shows, and I would never speak in such platitudes if I weren’t deadly serious about the importance of seeing this particular show right now.
http://magazine.jamsbio.com/2008/09/19/life-during-wartime-david-byrne-live-in-virginia/
That’s an easy one, rdm, the 10% represents how he and his band search to capture the individual gestalt (a German term that basically means “shape” or “essential/special quality of,” etc–it’s worth looking up as it does not totally translate into English) of each show while also blending in the occasional request. Glad you are on the edge of your seat re: db and his abilities (art, music, philanthropy, etc) as he truly deserves it and as you may know, he’s a big fan of LWs music/lyrics as well.
For all you doubting mustafas out there, here is David Byrne’s set-list from last night, which is a good example of how he rolls with his 30/30/30 philosophy. I still can’t figure out why there are so many blind cranks on this site (it’s OK that none of us are perfect–artists included, really ). What a day that was!
1. *Strange Overtones
2. I Zimbra
3. *One Fine Day
4. Help Me Somebody
5. Houses in Motion
6. *Lost and Found
7. My Big Hands (Fall Through the Cracks)
8. Heaven
9. *Home
10. *My Big Nurse
11. Crosseyed & Painless
12. *Soul to Soul
13. Once in a Lifetime
14. Life During Wartime
15. *I Feel My Stuff
(encore)
16. Take Me to the River
17. The Great Curve
(encore)
18. *Everything that Happens Will Happen Today…That is not opinion, that is a lie. And when it is, I don’t care who you are– then I WILL come with guns blazing, and I will call BS what it is, because at that point a line is crossed and you are messin’ not only with Lucinda’s character and reputation but her very livelihood. And mine. And I will always guard that. I think everyone can understand that. I hope so.[/quote] <– From your post listed above.
TOveby: This is a forum, an open forum at that. It sure sounds like you are treating it like yours and you are the only one that has a BS detector. I for one am not impressed that you “WILL come out with guns blazing”–remember, all caps means yelling in terms of etiquette. What is that about? Are you the ultimate source of all things LW? Are you the only one whose perspective matters here? My perspective is very sound and from your last posts here, I am far from impressed with your perspective and I can certainly sense when I think someone is being defensive and thumping their finger off my chest. Frankly, your comments regarding my post reminds me of the Wizard of Oz–“don’t mind that man behind the curtain–I am the great and powerful Oz!” Perhaps you should consider opening a closed journal or a blog because many of us have been around a long time and have very sophisticated BS detectors in terms of knowing LWs music and performances. Some of us are more than able to build a solid and learned debate in terms of someone’s BS or, as I believe it is the case with some of your entries, when someone goes defensive. TOverby–you are LW manager, a fortunate position, indeed. But please remember, with that position comes the responsibility of inheriting a bunch of long time fans. Some of which are akin to stepchildren that have been with their Mom well before a new marriage–you have to earn our trust not just scream in our ears. No need to scream, dudeski–this is only a freakin’ forum. If this was a playground, you might be considered its bully.
I read your recent post as very clean, thoughtful, and eloquent, Tim. I really appreciate your refreshing insights as it can get unnecessarily hot and overly optimistic in here sometimes. Your thoughts ring true and do offer a look at other (personal) dynamics that are occurring well outside the small confines of this forum. Interesting is the fact that Happy Woman Blues, Sweet Old World, and Self-titled can be so easily and quickly shelved and discounted–like as you mentioned dismissing Dylan’s early material–or how about My Aim is True, Armed Forces or This Year’s Model–clearly classics and mile markers in the world of music. Why don’t we throw American Beauty under the bus while we are at it? Sticky Fingers, too? They will always be classics even in the face of (a supposed well-connected and responsible) someone’s denunciation–as happened here a few comments back.
Nice perspective, Steve. Your post is well-written and easy to read. It’s true–I do know the tour, the music, the players, and have a good feel for the fan-base as well. I appreciated your grounded stance and approach. Finally, it is difficult to understand how/why Tom Overby came out with guns blazing. Your correct–why try to back someone off having a favorite song or time stamp. Finally, it’s not too, too hard to find a current concert review that does not sing the praises for LWs latest sound. Enjoy the day.
David
IbU: You are exactly correct–and I apologize. My choice of words can easily be interpreted as harsh (why I used rabid is beyong me–it sounded OK at the time but should have not been used–it’s easy to see why you took offense to that). I am glad you reposted as it gives me a chance to apologize.
In an effort to reword, I have been following this board since it went up on the old website and have frequently seen postings that get belittled when they question a recording, performance, or quality etc when it is an entirely appropriate thing to do–especially when the recording, etc in question deserves a bit of a critique. That’s what I was pointing to. I do a bring a different prespective to her music as I have a long-standing streak. I realize some long-standing streakers love her new concert sound, I am just not one of them. I guess I suffer from a critical eye and ear. As I mentioned above, I love her music and always will. She opened the door to many different things for me. Anyway, thanks for the clarification. Here is one review that might serve as a summary of what I am point towards. Notice the way the author describes her different sound…
Review: Lucinda Williams
The Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated: 06/23/2007 02:31:08 AM MDTTrying to pin a simple label on Lucinda Williams’ songs is a fool’s game.
As soon as you call her “country,” Williams will break into a swanky blues walk. When you think you have her pinned down as a folkie, she’ll lead her band into a rock tune. Williams herself realizes just how tricky she is to define. At one point at her Friday concert on the University of Utah campus, she introduced “Get Right with God” as the song that won her a “Best Female Rock Vocal” Grammy, before adding, “It’s anything but a rock song.”Friday’s show, though, was a rockier affair than typical for Williams. Several times she stepped back from her microphone to dance to the raucous sounds coming from her three-piece backing band, led by excellent guitarist Doug Pettibone. Songs like “Atonement,” “Unsuffer Me” and “Come On” all had an added kick missing on their recorded versions.
Given that Williams took the stage in a Led Zeppelin t-shirt, jeans and knee-high boots, her focus on rock material shouldn’t have been a huge shock. But her version of concert standard “Joy,” complete with riffs lifted from Led Zeppelin and The Doors courtesy of Pettibone and opening act Kelly Joe Phelps’ dueling guitars was a surprise.
“Rescue” from Williams’ “West” album opened the show with a sparse arrangement, but Williams quickly built some momentum with stellar takes on “Fruits of My Labor,” “Words” and “Those Three Days,” which featured some excellent vocal harmonies from Pettibone.
Not every song was a home run; “Sweet Side” had Williams straining to hit some notes, and her efforts at spoken-word/rapping on songs like “Righteously” don’t really work, despite their strong lyricsA few final comments:
1. Tom—LW has not been playing 18-20 song sets regularly especially as an opener for JM. I remember years ago when her encores were often longer than her original set. Somerville Theater with Kenny Vaughn and Jim Lauderdale is good example of that among many other shows. When she finds her groove there is no stopping her.
2. I think it is important to define what is considered “older” music. Many long-time fans think pre CWOGR represents the heart of her catalog. What’s more, she captured many, many of her latest fan-base as a result of CWOGR and the associated media support. Before that time, us fans were often referred to as “a cult-like following” by the press (Village Voice, etc). It’s perfectly OK that I am not a big fan of her newer releases and “sound.” After all, Gurf Morlix and Charlie Sexton and Bo Ramsey and Kenny Vaughn and Doug Pettibone all have different “sounds” as do the hands of the producers and final polishing efforts in terms of whoever masters the record. There are light years that separate her early albums and CWOGR.
3. No need to get too, too defensive (curious is the undertone of defensivness—why undercut my comments? Are they not valid as well? Should they just be discounted and undermined? If so, why? If not, why?). I have read every review that I could find that has been published during the past twenty years (both “real” and organic) and my opinions reflect many of the professionals (and fan-base) as well. Many individuals really enjoy LWs morphing direction while others don’t. That’s natural as change is inevitable—it’s the only thing we all share—constant change.
4. Who ever stated that dbs comment is now a “standard.” I thought it was a very interesting comment especially in consideration of dbs efforts as an artist, philanthropist, musician, former label-owner, budding engineer, and entrepreneur—currently he and BE have side-stepped the entire recording industry (which is shrinking anyway) and are managing the release/distribution of their lastest recording via the web (www.everythinghappens.com). During the first day when a free download was made available (Strange Overtones) over 40,000 individuals grabbed the freebee. Perhaps his comment is reflective of the thought and energy he puts into what he does—that’s all. Perhaps his comment was authentic of a professional musician and not worth sweeping aside. Arguably speaking, where would we be without Talking Heads musically? And it looks like we will be thanking him for his pioneering efforts in helping artists in getting their music distributed and making money at the same time. The current model is not working–look at CD sales and store closings for example. His latest tour is going to be Songs of David Byrne and Brian Eno–you don’t like those songs, don’t bitch if you go to the shows. Simple, really.
5. What would you say if I was a “real” critic? What definition are you using? Sure, I am not a paid publicist out to “promote” her latest record/sound but I could never do that job. Sure, I am not a “fan” who visits this site who has been listening to her new records and is absolutely in love with her sound and setlists. I do my research before going to a show because I am that into it. And as I said, I am not going to travel—like I always do—to catch a few shows because I am not in love with what she is playing now. I am sure you have read the reviews of LATF—not all stellar that’s for sure. And that’s OK. There have been many Elvis Costello tours that I have missed for the same reason—not in love with his latest sound and so forth. But be assured, there have been many LWs tours where I have filled up my car and traveled around to catch her wherever possible (Montreal, Cleveland, New Orleans, Boston, NYC, Buffalo, NH, MPLS, Milwaukee, Chicago) and so forth. And I have promoted her albums/persona to no end—she is awesome and the best. I trust my critical ears and know what I like, what I am doing, and what I am hearing.
6. Everybody’s opinion is valid unless they demean or swear or are hostile, etc. Of course the forum is going to be primarily super-positive because it attracts super-fanatic fans. It’s only natural. There is still room for those of us who have been around long before Lost Highway, when LW was playing in support of her early records when Gurf used a half-empty Budweiser bottle to create his swampy steel-sounding Gibson guitar that transported us all instantly to Grant Street Dance Hall in Lafayette. Sure, LW and DP do that today and do a darn good job of it. But please, don’t try to take away my perspective. It’s as valuable as anyone else’s here. I’m not taking jabs at anyone and expect the same in return. Just taking a learned approach to my love of Americana and Heritage music. And who are the monikers of this sound?—nobody could argue that LW is at the top of the list. I am just giving up my seat at the concerts for someone else for the time being. That’s all.Many thanks, for you comments and ideas, Tom. It is impressive that someone so connected to/with LW is weighing in on the forum–thanks for signing on without an acronym. With this in mind, a few point that I would like to clarify:
Talking Heads did not tour “thru the 80’s and 90’s” (the band disbanded mid=80’s) so concerts did not continue into the 90’s.
3) I love LWs music much above many others while many critics have argued (academically speaking) that her earlier work is richer albeit different than her catalog including CWOGR and beyond. For the record, I would agree.
4) It’s great that this is the first time in “her career that she’s even had new albums out in consecutive years so from 2004-2006 there weren’t even any new songs to play.” I want to mention that there have been a lot of us around before this period of prolific production and have a different and broader perspective than this very large, newer fan base. Not better, just different.Illbeyou: No reason to go hostile (or bombastic). No need to bring rabies into the picture–where’d that come from? Really, one can be civil and agree to disagree without being confrontational. Data tells us that her setlists are top-heavy with new stuff–so what! She is her own person and her music/lyrics are great. One cannot argue the fact that there are some real fanatics (the source of the term “fan”) on this board would/will defend her shows/performances/voice/etc somewhat blindly. So be it. Being bombastic has nothing to do with rabies. Being mean-spirited and confrontational in this forum is just that–mean-spirited and confrontational. Finally, her cover does not fit into DBs criteria as her setlist do not follow the 30/30/30 overall formula. It is based on the entire setlist not just one piece. As LW once wrote with a gentle awareness:
If I stray away too far from you, don’t go and try to find me
I doesn’t mean I don’t love you, it doesn’t mean I won’t come back and stay beside you
It only means I need a little time
To follow that unbroken line
To a place where the wild things grow
To a place where I used to always goIllbeyou–don’t hate the player, hate the game…
As a long-time fan of Lucinda Williams (1st concert was when she opened for Gram Parker at First Avenue in MPLS circa 1989 and many since), LWs current concerts and setlists are lack-luster and somewhat difficult to sit through–from my perspective of course. So I agree with you Howa. Unfortunately, this forum has its fair share of fanatatical posters who see LW as “the best show on Earth” without putting too much critical thought into their observations yet are very emotive regarding her song choices and performance/vocal qualities. I think it is a fan’s ultimate job to critique while supporting our favorite artists (some of mine are Elvis Costello, Nick Lowe, Neil Young, Todd Snider, Lucinda Williams, Tim Easton, David Byrne–yes he’s touring this fall!, and many more). Not every album or performance/tour is “oh my gosh, that’s incredible!” yet some fanatics sure think so (take Live at the Fillmore for example–not a very good recording from my perspective).
From my perspective, LW is not at the top of her game and her setlists are top-heavy with new stuff. David Byrne once mentioned that his shows are 30-30-30s; meaning 30% new stuff, 30% crowd pleasers, 30% old stuff. So while artists do tour to support new material such a statement should not support what LW is doing today. I am not going to her shows–unless they are right down the street because I am not totally in love with her setlists and her voice right now. As a responsible fan, I can honestly say it’s too raspy and guteral. Not my thing but I still love her, support her, and will always cherish the 6 or 7 conversations that I have shared with her over the years. Just be ready for the occassional rabid LW fan to take one’s venting out of context, Howa. That’s a common behavior of a fanatic–go bombastic on a balanced perspective or vent. Thanks, for sharing your balanced perspective, Howa!
Hey there:
Really, no need to show attitude, be disrespectful, or rant. It’s offensive during an (intellectual) dialog such as this. Actually, I was not using a generalization, just summarizing what is reflected in the university-level research regarding brain/personality development and my years attending concerts, writing reviews, talking with performers, teaching high school/college, and spending time with children at several concerts. Kids will sit through a cartoon-movie but a concert is a completely different thing. And expecting a performer to change their persona for you (and your kids) is a unrealistic expectation–especially a performer with such passion like LW. If you go into the woods, expect to see wild animals–regardless if you kids are with you or not. One music, one people, one love–David
With all due respect, I am always amazed at people’s responses to LWs on stage persona. And the reasons for this are many. For example, she has a long standing history of being vocal during her performances, which includes rants of all kinds. That being said and known by many, why does this come as such a surprise when she drops her F-Bombs from time to time. This is what she does on occasion. I am not saying that I agree, just noting what the history reflects. I think it is important to remember that she is not Judy Collins or Joan Baez, just Lucinda Williams. As she said once “I have a terrible habit of falling in love with married men who already have 3-mistresses.” Songwriters and stars are normal like you and me and your neighbor so perhaps we should not set each other up to fail via false expectations.
Secondly, concerts are typically not kid friendly. At concerts there is often pot smoking , yelling, screaming, and drinking of all sorts. Even at the famous Lowell Summer Concerts that have been going on for many years. When one takes their children to such a show, there are no guarentees-especially with a songwriter like LW. As a music writer and teacher, I have seen many parents get frustarated with their kids and performers alike. Think about it, the attention span and cognitive abilities/psychological development level of kids under 16 is typically “still in process (low)” so why expect them to understand what is going on or the performer to “come down” to their level? Isn’t this setting both the kids and performer up to fail? The kids would be much happier at a water park…
Finally, I appreciate and cherish LW for all she is. After all, isn’t our inadequacies and imperfections that make all of us so darn cute? Keep singing, writing, and feeling your feelings, LW. Your songwriting is the best…
Good question, Ray and I imagine several posters will disagree with my thinking here. As a teacher/educator, my summer days are very busy (attending nat’l conferences, tutoring, other work) so I can’t attend everything that I want. Plus, I am not totally in love with LWs sound and setlists right now. Love Doug Pettibone’s work–especially when he played with Bo Ramsey–those two could really work. Love her music and I love her concerts, but I am just not feeling it right now. I know I will catch a couple of shows this fall, and that’s cool by me. The Stone Mountain show would have been a $300 night with close to 4-hours of travel and framing this against the many times that I have seen LWs, it’s just not the space that I am in. I have seen her “up close and personal” several times and so I will leave my couple of seats open for someone who wants this opportunity. Color me crazy, but I will simply wait…
As a side note, David Byrne is touring this fall (“The Music of Byrne and Eno”) and I take the same approach: I will see two or three shows of the tour and call it good. I always do this with the core of musicians that I follow. 2 or 3 shows of every tour. For me, I can capture the essence of a tour with this and it fills me comfortably full. Full of tasty memories that age and mingle with other tasty musical memories. I could never do an all-you-can-eat Phish-style coast-to-coast tour thingy.
Thanks, again, for the interesting dialog and maybe see you at the edge of a LW show sometime!
One music, one people,
David
