Change in America’s thinking?

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  • #29408
    rachel8375
    Participant

    I was thinking of the reactions artists have gotten over the last several years for wearing their politics on their sleeves. It ain’t been pretty, to say the least, in the case of acts like the Dixie Chicks. (Although, in their case, it may have been their timing, with their comments coming on the eve of going to war in Iraq.) I’m curious to see what people are going to say about Lu’s protest EP. I’m wondering if she’ll lose fans who belong to the whole school of “Support the troops by being a “good” American and agreeing with the Bush administration.” rather than “Supporting the troops doesn’t mean agreeing with the war.”

    Of course, if Fox News picks up on the whole thing, I’m sure there’ll be people against her stance, which is fine. I’m against Toby Keith’s stance on the war. 🙂

    Guess I’m just wondering if it’s gotten less “un-patriotic” to do something like she’s doing in some way. For the record, I think it’s the essence of patriotism myself, and I’m interested to hear ‘Bone of Contention’ when it comes out, having heard the other three at various times. She did ‘Masters of War’ when I saw her in Birmingham about 2 weeks after 9/11, and it sent chills up and down my back, and remains to this day, a highlight of the four times I’ve seen her live. I mean, it took guts to do a song like that in those times. If I’m not mistaken, she did it about two days after the attacks in concert, but my mind may be failing on the dates. 🙂

    What say the rest of you?

    #37189
    stellablueee
    Participant

    “For the record, I think it’s the essence of patriotism myself”

    i agree, the demise of newspapers is a bad sign for society, they’ll come back when the people demand it…..
    we’re missing youthful righteous indignation, but maybe the minds of america have become comfortably numb…
    let the flamethrowing commence!
    just one opinion/i didn’t edit out the bad words cuz i know this site censors them for me.

    This is Your Nation on White Privilege
    By Tim Wise
    September 13, 2008

    For those who still can’t grasp the concept of white privilege, or who
    are constantly looking for an easy-to-understand example of it,
    perhaps this list will help.

    White privilege is when you can get pregnant at seventeen like Bristol
    Palin and everyone is quick to insist that your life and that of your
    family is a personal matter, and that no one has a right to judge you,
    or your parents, because “every family has challenges,” even as black
    and Latino families with similar “challenges” are regularly typified
    as irresponsible, pathological and arbiters of social decay.

    White privilege is when you can call yourself a “fuckin’ redneck,”
    like Bristol Palin’s boyfriend does, who likes to “kick ass” if people
    mess with you, and who likes to “shoot shit,” for fun, and still be
    viewed as a responsible, all-American boy (and a great son-in-law to
    be) rather than a thug.

    White privilege is when you can attend four different colleges in six
    years like Sarah Palin did (one of which you basically failed out of,
    then returned to after making up some coursework at a community
    college), and no one questions your intelligence or commitment to
    achievement, whereas a person of color who did this would be viewed as
    unfit for college, and probably someone who only got in in the first
    place because of affirmative action.

    White privilege is when you can claim that being mayor of a town
    smaller than most medium-sized colleges, and then Governor of a state
    with about the same number of people as the lower fifth of the island
    of Manhattan makes you ready to potentially be president, and people
    don’t all piss on themselves with laughter, while being a black U.S.
    Senator, two-term state Senator, and constitutional law scholar, means
    you’re “untested.”

    White privilege is being able to say that you support the words “under
    God” in the pledge of allegiance because “if it was good enough or the
    founding fathers, it’s good enough for me,” and not be immediately
    disqualified from holding office–since, after all, the pledge was
    written in the late 1800s and the “under God” part wasn’t added until
    the 1950s–while believing that reading accused criminals and
    terrorists their rights (because, ya know, the constitution, which you
    used to teach at a prestigious law school) requires it, is a dangerous
    and silly idea only supported by mushy liberals.

    White privilege is being able to be a gun enthusiast and not make
    people immediately scared of you.

    White privilege is being able to have a husband who was a member of an
    extremist political party that wanted your state to secede from the
    union, and whose motto was “Alaska first,” and no one questions your
    patriotism or that of your family, while if you’re black and your
    spouse merely fails to come to a 9/11 memorial so she can be home with
    her kids on the first day of school, people immediately think she’s
    being disrespectful.

    White privilege is being able to make fun of community organizers and
    the work they do–like, among other things, fight for the right of
    women to vote, or for civil rights, or the 8-hour workday, or an end
    to child labor–and people think you’re being pithy and tough, but if
    you merely question the experience of a small town mayor and 18-month
    governor with no foreign policy expertise beyond a class she took in
    college–you’re somehow being mean, or even sexist.

    White privilege is being able to convince white women who don’t even
    agree with you on any substantive issue to vote for you and your
    running mate anyway, because all of a sudden your presence on the
    ticket has inspired confidence in these same white women, and made
    them give your party a “second look.”

    White privilege is being able to fire people who didn’t support your
    political campaigns and not be accused of abusing your power or being
    a typical politician who engages in favoritism, while being black and
    merely knowing some folks from the old-line political machines in
    Chicago means you must be corrupt.

    White privilege is being able to attend churches over the years whose
    pastors say that people who voted for John Kerry or merely criticize
    George W. Bush are going to hell, and that the U.S. is an explicitly
    Christian nation and the job of Christians is to bring Christian
    theological principles into government, and who bring in speakers who
    say the conflict in the Middle East is God’s punishment on Jews for
    rejecting Jesus, and everyone can still think you’re just a good
    church-going Christian, but if you’re black and friends with a black
    pastor who has noted (as have Colin Powell and the U.S. Department of
    Defense) that terrorist attacks are often the result of U.S. foreign
    policy and who talks about the history of racism and its effect on
    black people, you’re an extremist who probably hates America.

    White privilege is not knowing what the Bush Doctrine is when asked by
    a reporter, and then people get angry at the reporter for asking you
    such a “trick question,” while being black and merely refusing to give
    one-word answers to the queries of Bill O’Reilly means you’re dodging
    the question, or trying to seem overly intellectual and nuanced.

    White privilege is being able to claim your experience as a POW has
    anything at all to do with your fitness for president, while being
    black and experiencing racism is, as Sarah Palin has referred to it a
    “light” burden.

    And finally, white privilege is the only thing that could possible
    allow someone to become president when he has voted with George W.
    Bush 90 percent of the time, even as unemployment is skyrocketing,
    people are losing their homes, inflation is rising, and the U.S. is
    increasingly isolated from world opinion, just because white voters
    aren’t sure about that whole “change” thing. Ya know, it’s just too
    vague and ill-defined, unlike, say, four more years of the same, which
    is very concrete and certain…

    White privilege is…the problem.

    #37190
    badjuggler
    Participant

    Great post, stellablueee. You hit the nail on the head. Racism is alive and well in the Good Ole’ USA.

    #37191
    Disco Stu
    Participant

    I think the reason that the Dixie Chicks got such a large backlash for their comments was largely that many of their fans were flag-waving conservatives. Plenty of musicians with a more stereotypically liberal following have been critical of Bush and the administration and faced little or no backlash, because frankly, they’re preaching to the choir.

    As for Lucinda’s own preaching to the choir, I find it a little annoying at times, but she’s of course free to speak her mind. The protest EP is more high-profile than random comments between songs at shows, but I don’t think it’ll create too much controversy. Sad to say, most people don’t have a clue who she is. Heck, Merle Haggard did an album a couple years ago that wasn’t a protest album but did include two very pointed, very anti-war and anti-Bush administration songs, and I didn’t hear a peep about it one way or another in the media.

    As for the EP, I’m lukewarm on it. After all, we’ll all get to hear Bone of Contention on the new album, and I don’t care for Marching the Hate Machines Into the Sun anyway…I think it’s a pretty lame song. Masters of War should be nice, but I’d rather it be a studio recording than a live one.

    BTW, I don’t identify myself as either Democrat or Republican (both parties do their share to piss me off), though I’m definitely voting for Obama because he is by far the better of the choices. Frankly, I attribute the state of this country to the stupidity of a great many people. How else can you explain the fact that the McCain/Palin campaign has been getting away with and actually galvanizing support by spreading lies (and lies dealing with facts that are very easily looked up and even talked about by the media). Two big ones come to mind: telling people that Obama will raise their taxes (invalid unless she’s addressing a crowd of high-powered execs; anyone making less than $250k a year comes out better under Obama’s plan than under McCain’s), and telling people that Palin opposed the “bridge to nowhere” all along when she most certainly did not. I mean, I think of myself as a fairly reasonable person who can see both sides of almost any political argument, even if I feel strongly that one side is right. The people who want McCain because they think the Iraq war is a good thing, or love Palin because they want to ban all abortions…I strongly disagree with them, but I understand why they like the Republican ticket. What I don’t understand is how people can allow themselves to be misled by one candidate even in the face of clear and verifiable evidence.
    Frankly, after reading an article the other day I wanted to just give up. A former Hillary Clinton supporter who disliked McCain because she felt that he would be no different than Bush was saying that now she’s voting McCain because he picked Palin and she likes Palin. Seriously? How could any liberal with even half a working brain cell consider a vote for McCain/Palin? Again, I’m not saying I don’t understand why people support them – I get that a large number of people in this country, for better or worse, support the neocon ideology. Fine. But liking Hillary and choosing to vote for McCain on the basis of Palin makes about as much sense as wanting a Chihuahua and buying a St. Bernard.

    #37192
    rachel8375
    Participant

    Why would someone vote for McCain/Palin, even though they were a Hillary Clinton supporter? Because they’re voting with their reproductive organs, not their brains. 😯 The level of stupidity that people show sometimes makes me wish I could turn in my human card.

    #37193
    parkerca
    Participant

    Me too. There is nothing redeeming about the McCain/Palin ticket.

    #37194
    Tim
    Participant

    Great post Disco Stu! I really enjoyed reading your comments.

    #37195
    Philthy
    Participant

    @Disco Stu wrote:

    But liking Hillary and choosing to vote for McCain on the basis of Palin makes about as much sense as wanting a Chihuahua and buying a St. Bernard.

    Pitbull surely? 😕

    #37196
    katymae1275
    Participant

    Think most of the ‘wanted Hillary, will vote Palin’ vein is just planted by conservatives aiming to undermine/put into question the smallest possibly imagined crack they may see in the Obama/Biden ticket. Mention it enough;it becomes true. That’s been the Bush folks’ philosophy from day one. So, question all you hear, especially seeming nonsensical ideas like that. They are so desperate; they will do much more of this in the next 2 months. Question everything! And, don’t let them pull another one over on us! This former female Hillary supporter most definitely will not vote for a retro-woman like Palin. UGH! Repulsed at the mention. 🙄
    Ready to see Lucinda in Knoxville next week! YAY!

    #37197
    Disco Stu
    Participant

    Pitbull surely?

    Argh, I missed the obvious joke! Oh well.

    The really scary thing, at least about the woman I read about, is that apparently it’s not a wanting-to-vote-for-a-woman thing. If I recall, she said Palin is a refreshing outsider and she really loves that she’s just a “regular gal.” Why anyone would want the country to be led by a “regular guy/regular gal” is beyond me. Have they walked around lately and seen what “regular” people are like? 😕 I mean, when I vote, I do NOT want a president and vice president who are just like me. I want a president and vice president who are smarter, hold more nuanced opinions, and have a lot more leadership experience than me.

    Ah, well…on a happier and Lucinda-related note, I just found out today she’ll be playing a show in Madison on 10/25, which works out fantastic for me. I’m sure I’ll get to hear some of her political views that night, as well as (I hope) a fantastic show. 8)

    #37198
    stevarino
    Participant

    I wonder what opportunities are ahead for my white male son. He is in 5th grad and does well at math, and science, and plays trombone in the band. But reading this series of responses, along with a lot of other materials has me worried. Somehow white male children are being allowed to slip down the ladder of priorities. Female teachers want their classes to be as easy as possible and think all the boys should be on ADD drugs. Stella thinks that every white person is privileged and obviously will try to make sure that any other category has priority over them. Some people will read this and laugh, but honestly I’ve been watching my son and daughter for 11 years and it’s amazing how she is favored over him in many ways. My son scored high enough on his first try to get into the advanced math class but my daughter did not. A specialist was sent to our house to re-test my daughter and afterward she was also placed in the class. Now my son has to help her with the homework. I guess preferences in sex and gender and other categories are making sure we end white male privilege, as Stella desires. Abilities be damned. It does not matter what you can do or accomplish. It matters whether you are the favored gender or race or religion of the moment..

    I will probably vote for the presidential candidate that is in opposition to the majority in Congress. Hopefully with a Republican in the Executive branch and the Democrats in control of Congress less legislation will be approved. For me, less government is better.

    I’m not usually political, but the racist comments by Stella here inspired me. I’m sure Stella does not think she is racist, but when she begins every paragraph with “white privilege” it pretty clear to me she has a problem with white citizens.

    #37199
    Ray
    Participant

    Just to get this back on track because i don’t think the topic Rachel raised was gender issues or race (and it looks like Stellabluee only shared a Facebook post from a ‘Tim Wise’….) I think the topic is this: How do we all feel about Lu singing a bunch of protest songs? (About war, and our “leaders”)

    Good topic, Rachel. I agree with you about the essence of patriotism, and I’m looking forward to this release almost as much as Little Honey. I’m impressed that Lucinda is doing this.

    I’ve always been moved by protest songs. They can stir the same kind of passionate intensity that Lucinda’s best songs do about private feelings and reflection. And they elevate the music because there is a higher cause; its about more than just self.

    Last year, at her NJ show on a college campus just before the NYC stand, she ended the performance with both “marching the hate machines” and “For What it’s worth”. it was a powerful, beautiful encore.

    Although I don’t think she’s sticking her neck out very far with most of this audience, i still admire her for taking a stand. (….as she has done since high school, getting expelled for refusing to say the pledge of allegiance to protest another misguided war.)

    I was also impressed when, at several shows last year, she read a poem by the beat poet Lawrence Ferlinghetti about how this country has gone astray and lost its best values. (It’s recorded on the live CD from the NYC World Without Tears night.) Here’s the poem:

    Pity the Nation
    (after Khalil Gibran’s “Garden of the Prophet”)

    Pity the nation whose people are sheep,
    and whose shepherds mislead them.
    Pity the nation whose leaders are liars, whose sages are silenced,
    and whose bigots haunt the airwaves.
    Pity the nation that raises not its voice,
    except to praise conquerors and acclaim the bully as hero
    and aims to rule the world with force and by torture.
    Pity the nation that knows no other language but its own
    and no other culture but its own.
    Pity the nation whose breath is money
    and sleeps the sleep of the too well fed.
    Pity the nation — oh, pity the people who allow their rights to erode
    and their freedoms to be washed away.
    My country, tears of thee, sweet land of liberty.

    Lawrence Ferlinghetti, 2007

    #37200
    Rainydayman
    Participant

    Hey Ray thanks for sharing the Ferlinghetti poem. I heard her read it in Greensboro last year (September). She also debuted “For What It’s Worth” that same night, which I am pleased to see will be included on the EP. And thanks also for getting this thread back on track. I for one like to hear Lu share her thoughts with us, political or otherwise. I guess it helps that I agree with her views.

    #37201
    Lefty
    Participant

    We can drive ourselves to distraction with this…

    http://www.270towin.com/simulation/

    #37202
    Ray
    Participant

    Distraction — been there often. And it’s still a pleasant drive, Lefty! 8)

    from a Florida weekly….
    The 10 best protest songs inspired by the Bush administration
    Published 09.24.08
    By Wade Tatangelo

    The Bush administration orchestrated a dubious war in Iraq that has resulted in more U.S. deaths than the 9/11 attacks. The president then responded carelessly to Hurricane Katrina while the nation watched in horror. The White House’s tax cuts for the wealthiest have produced what sure feels like a recession — plus record budget deficits. Then there’s the whole perversion of the U.S. Constitution and a slew of other cruel blunders (vetoing State Children’s Health Insurance Program, anyone?) too numerous to mention.

    It’s been a rough eight years, to say the least. The upside? Well, Bush has inspired some of the best protest songs in decades.

    Everyone from Norah Jones to Young Jeezy has taken a swipe at the draft-dodging commander in chief. Here are my 10 favorites:

    1. “A Few Words in Defense of Our Country, Randy Newman
    Over gorgeous Dixieland piano, subtle horns, pedal steel, and stately strings, pop’s king of satire sends up the Bush Administration by calling its actions mild compared to those of the Caesars, the Spanish Inquisition, Hitler, Stalin and King Leopold. The song plays for laughs while addressing a sad scenario that gains traction every day: “This empire is ending.”
    Killer line(s): “We don’t want your love/ And respect at this point is pretty much out of the question/ But times like these/ We sure could use a friend.”

    2. “Worldwide Suicide,” Pearl Jam
    Knee-deep in Bush’s second term, grunge survivors Pearl Jam issued a self-titled album featuring the band’s choicest material since 1991’s Ten. A scorching rocker, “Worldwide Suicide” finds the singer reading about the death of a young soldier he knows in the morning papers, an occurrence that has become all too commonplace in recent years.
    Killer line(s): “Medals on a wooden mantle/ Next to a handsome face/ That the president took for granted/ Writing checks that others pay.”

    3. “When the President Talks to God,” Bright Eyes
    No artist has done a better job than Bright Eyes’ Conor Oberst of capturing the hypocrisy of a Born Again Christian who is a big fan of the death penalty and proudly campaigned as the “bring ’em on” war president. Connor Oberst smartly avoids his trademark simile, metaphor and surrealism for straightforward zingers that connect like smart bombs.
    Killer line(s): “When the President talks to God/ Does he fake that drawl or merely nod?/ Agree which convicts should be killed?/ Where prisons should be built and filled?”

    4. “How Can a Poor Man Stand Such Times and Live,” Bruce Springsteen
    The Boss revived (and rewrote several verses) of this Great Depression-era folk song specifically for his triumphant performance at the 2006 New Orleans Jazz & Heritage Festival. I was there, and still get chills as I recall Springsteen delivering a stirring intro and then belting out this song with an army of guitars, keyboards, horns and gospel singers behind him. He dedicated it to “President Bystander.”
    Killer line(s): “There’s bodies floatin’ on Canal and the levees gone to Hell/ Martha, get me my 16 gauge and some dry shells/ Them who’s got, got out of town/ And them who ain’t, got left to drown.”

    5. “The Revolution Starts…,” Steve Earle
    Released in the summer of 2004 in hope of thwarting Bush’s reelection campaign, the title track of alt-country hero Steve Earle’s The Revolution Starts … Now rolls down the track with all the roots-rock force of past hits like “Copperhead Road.”
    Killer line(s): “The revolution starts now/ When you rise above your fear.”

    6. “White People for Peace,” Against Me!
    Gainesville punks are outspoken anti-Bushites, but on this song they flip the script, questioning the value of “protest songs in response to military aggression.”
    Killer line(s): “Bureaucrats engaged in debate to try and reach a resolution/ The people sang protest songs to try and stop the soldier’s gun.”

    7. “Mosh,” Eminem
    The most intense and best-realized track on Eminem’s uneven 2004 (released in November) album Encore, the song’s finest verse finds Marshall Mathers spitting vitriol directly at Dubya.
    Killer line(s): “Look in his eyes, its all lies/ The stars and stripes, they’ve been swiped, washed out and wiped/ And replaced with his own face.”

    8. “That’s the News,” Merle Haggard
    The country star who spoke for the silent majority on his signature 1969 hit “Okie From Muskogee” changes his tune on 2003’s “That’s the News,” an indictment of both the war in Iraq and the media’s coverage of it.
    Killer line(s): “Suddenly the cost of war is somethin’ out of sight/ Lost a lotta heroes in the fight/ Politicians do all the talkin’, soldiers pay the dues/ Suddenly the war is over, that’s the news.”

    9. “Living with War,” Neil Young
    Granted, Young overdid it a bit with his 2006 protest album Living with War, clobbering listeners with tuneless slogans like “Let’s Impeach the President.” The title track, however, is vintage Young, with the fury offset by humanity and empathy for those suffering from the administration’s unwise decisions.
    Killer line(s): “And when the dawn breaks I see my fellow man/ And on the flat-screen we kill and we’re killed again/ And when the night falls, I pray for peace.”

    10. “Not Ready to Make Nice,” Dixie Chicks
    No music act has paid more dearly for speaking out against Bush than the Dixie Chicks. On their first album after the debacle that witnessed the band’s CDs being burned outside redneck radio stations, the women remained strong, especially on the self-explanatory single “Not Ready to Make Nice.”
    Killer line(s): “I’m through with doubt/ There’s nothing left for me to figure out/ I’ve paid a price/ And I’ll keep paying.”

    http://sarasota.creativeloafing.com/gyrobase/the_10_best_protest_songs_inspired_by_the_bush_administration/Content?oid=190660

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